By: Annabelle Low, GMBA Class of 2018

In the evening of Friday, April 7, 2017, the Career Development Centre (CDC) held a panel on career development queries for international students. The panelists were from the 2015GMA class: Daniel Cowen, Michael Rosenthal, and Wilson Wu. The panel highlights are as follows:

Could you give us a brief introduction of yourselves and your journey to date?

D: I’m from London. I have a degree in Aeronautics and worked in an investment bank before coming to Beijing. I currently work at Tsinghua Holdings Capital, a job which I found through CDC. I’ve always wanted to come to China without having to be an English teacher, so I did Chinese in last year of university, took evening classes as a hobby. Eventually, I quit and came to Beijing for this MBA.

M: I was born in Israel, grew up in the US, and did Chinese in university. I have worked in China for seven years, of which five were in real estate. When I first got here, I worked for the People’s Insurance Company (group) of China, before moving to a family-owned company to do real estate. I currently work at Harvest Fund, doing mostly institutional sales for international clients. I got my job through the CDC Wechat group.

W: I was an IT risk manager at Ernst & Young before coming here. During my MBA, I worked at a small startup for a while, and got an investments internship with Khazanah Nasional Berhad via CDC. I’m currently not working as I’m focusing on my thesis. I came to Tsinghua to explore my roots.

What is the level of Chinese proficiency required when looking for a job? What does a foreigner need to bring to the table? How important is Chinese?

D: I think big foreign companies will probably accept zero Chinese, but we all have some level of Chinese proficiency here. I did an internship at Hainan airlines in English, but Mike and I now work in companies where the primary language is Chinese so my Chinese has improved. Think about it this way- There are 400,000 foreign students in China last year, of which a good chunk can speak Chinese. You have to see this as some level of competition. You have to be able to know Chinese because they could also hire a Chinese returnee. Last year, the number of returning Chinese surpassed the number going out. The investment costs to learn Chinese are low, except for time. There are students in my class who have just been taking intensive Chinese lessons.

M: If you put Chinese on your resume but it’s not up to par, you’ll quickly get found out during the interview stage. Your Chinese doesn’t have to be perfect but they want to see you put in effort. For me, my work reports need to be seemingly written by Chinese person, so I get my wife to look over everything I do.

W: In Khazanah, everything was in English so working was fine. That being said, the chit chat in Chinese. So you can get along for work, but not for socializing.

What was your biggest disadvantage when working/ applying for jobs? Biggest advantage?

D: My biggest disadvantage is that I’m not Chinese. If you find a role where some English is required, Chinese candidates, especially returning Chinese, are probably going to beat you every time. My advice for this is don’t chase after opportunities that aren’t so suitable. In terms of biggest advantage, I can work on stuff that Chinese colleagues are not able to do due to lack of international experience. It helps if you have experience, especially in niche areas.

M: For me, it was the lack of investment experience. I applied for investment jobs, but I’d worked in real estate beforehand, so I didn’t know anything about investments. My firm is expanding to the US market so my advantage is that I can help out here.

W: Not understanding how Chinese business culture works was definitely a disadvantage. For example, business flows. Even though I’m Chinese and speak Chinese well, working experience is a different thing altogether. My advantage is that I know Chinese culture better than Americans, and I know Americans better than Chinese.

How do your companies use you as bridge between cultures?

M: I accompany my bosses to all international meetings. For this particular project I’m working on, I was able to find contacts and set up meetings because I’m more familiar with the US and Canada.

D: My boss wouldn’t go to meetings with foreigners without myself or Rafael (a colleague) present. When meeting with Chinese firms without much international experience, our presence helps to present a more international image. There’s a huge need for this in industries do international business. That being said, industry knowledge is more important than nationality. For example, a Chinese fashion company that wants to do business in Italy is unlikely to hire you just because you are Italian if you have no fashion background.

W: I’m used the most to translate. These companies want a native speaker touch on their documents, and to attract international investors etc.  

How challenging did you find it to adapt to Chinese corporate culture? Does it depend on the company or the people working there?

W: It’s easiest for foreigners to fit in international culture. For me, I’ve interviewed and gone into Chinese companies, but I couldn’t get used to the culture there. For example, one company had people who were allowed to smoke in office. I didn’t take that job.

D: It can be frustrating when it gets inefficient, but this is because there are people who are terrible at their jobs, not because of the culture. There’s also intricacies about working that I had to get used to, like clocking in and clocking out, or how the Chinese really pay attention to who walks through the door first. I’ve learned to never sit down first at an event because you don’t know who else is more important in the room, and that person always sits first.

How does your compensation for the finance industry here compare to a bulge bracket bank?

D: They don’t pay very well to start with at entry level, but the guys who put in good investments and have been there for 5 years are getting huge bonuses they would not have gotten overseas. Even though base pay is low, the expenses are lower and costs are half. If money is important to you, then it would make more sense to get a job overseas then transfer in. But then you would need to really convince the company of your value. Or work in Hong Kong or Singapore.

M: Yeah, Chinese pay structure seems to be geared towards having a lower base pay but better bonuses.

Let’s talk more about that. In finance industry in China, a lot of financial reward comes from bonuses, which means you have to do a lot of deal sourcing. How do you do deal sourcing in China when your connections are not as strong as locals?

D: Well my job is more fundraising than deal sourcing. It’s not hard to deal source in China as everybody wants you to invest in their companies. Finding good stuff is a challenge, but there is a separate professional team taking care of that. It’s unlikely that someone coming out of an MBA will end up in a specific role that counts on your connections as companies would naturally prefer someone with more connections to fill these roles.

M: I have no connections to anyone who works at any listed company, but I meet a lot of internal researchers who meet these listed companies every single day, so I get them to put me in touch.

How did you start job hunting, and what do you recommend us to do first?

D: My boss came to me through CDC. Make sure your resume is up to date. If you’re applying for different roles, customize it to the industry. Make it relevant. Make sure you are selling what you want to sell- for example, I finally took coding in 6 languages off my CV because I decided I never want to do it again. Join Wechat groups for your undergraduate university, alumni groups, get yourself in all of these circles because there are a lot of job postings, and most people get jobs through them. Go to alumni events- the alumni office will be very supportive of you. By extension, go to all events hosted by Embassies and Chamber of Commerce.

M: I also got all my info from CDC. I sent out 50 resumes and got 15 interviews. I changed the cover letter for each, but sent the same version of resume to every job.

W: I helped classmates edit their resumes when I was helping out with CDC. I think it’s important that you know what you want to do. I don’t know what I want to do, so it’s a process of elimination. If you do know, go through the regular channels like Wechat, register at Chinese job hunting websites. There’s Linkedin, but I submitted like 30-40 applications through Linkedin and never got a single response. I find that messages through Wechat groups are the most effective. I answered a message that looked really generic but turned out to be a strategy manager role with Microsoft on a tiny team of three. If you don’t know what you want to do, try as many internships as possible in different companies. You only need 1 job.

What did you decide to focus on when coming to China? Language or internships?

D: My first focus was language. I went for an interview with a company where this interviewer told me straight up that you don’t communicate well in Chinese so you are of no use to me. I just hired a girl who did a masters in the UK, what edge do you have over her? This was my motivation to do better in Chinese. If your focus is on internships, find what fits with your schedule. Most companies are fairly flexible, especially if you can promise that you eventually can do fulltime. In China, internships are more like roles that turn like jobs.

How do you decide which companies to work for in China?

M: I interviewed at a lot of China-based boutique firms. Do research beforehand especially before the interview and ask questions, like what were their previous deal sizes etc.

D: I much prefer a smaller company because it suits my personality. If you want large company, then be prepared to do a mundane job. Just because the name isn’t something you’ve heard of before doesn’t mean it wouldn’t be good for your career trajectory.

W: In an interview, you are also interviewing the company. Ask your Chinese classmates about the firm. They usually know a lot. You have nothing to lose. Just go and work for a month or two- if you don’t like it, quit. There’s always things you can learn.